It鈥檚 been nearly a month since Omaha Nation Elder Nathan Phillips and Nicholas Sandmann, a white student from Covington Catholic High School, appeared to face off on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington. Phillips was there for the Indigenous People鈥檚 March and Sandmann for the March for Life. A bystander captured the moment when Sandmann appeared to be smirking at Phillips, and then posted it on Twitter. The image quickly provoked a fire hose of outrage. Soon, videos shot from multiple angles surfaced, revealing that Sandmann and his male classmates had been previously taunted by another group鈥攖he Black Hebrew Israelites. The videos also showed Covington students engaged in chants and tomahawk chops to the sound of Phillips playing the hand drum. And, suddenly, the narrative became more complicated. For many, the additional videos were evidence that the teen and his classmates were victims, not perpetrators of racism. The calls to move past the debate were swift. But many Native people have said, 鈥淣ot so fast.鈥� For Rebecca Nagle, a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, there were many lessons for educators. 91直播 Editorial Intern Sasha Jones caught up with her recently to discuss them.
Many have argued that it鈥檚 time to move on from the encounter between the group of Covington Catholic High School students and members of the Indigenous People鈥檚 March. Why is anyone still talking about it, and why should educators still be thinking about it?
NAGLE: I think there鈥檚 a lot to take from it in terms of what educators and what our education system, in general, can do better. I think that the behavior of the Covington Catholic High School students, while unfortunate, is not rare and is reflective of larger problems within media and pop culture, but also K-12 curriculums, and what people are learning about Native Americans and what people aren鈥檛.
What鈥檚 your response to the critics who say that it鈥檚 because some white students don鈥檛 often encounter students of color that they don鈥檛 know how to behave? Do you think that鈥檚 fair?
I can鈥檛 count how many times somebody has told me, 鈥淥h, wow, you鈥檙e the first Native person I鈥檝e ever met.鈥� And you know what I say to that? That鈥檚 probably not true. It鈥檚 just the first time that you鈥檙e aware of it, because you鈥檙e meeting Native people all the time, we鈥檙e just invisible. So, you鈥檙e not coming to the conclusion that the person that you鈥檙e meeting is Native American. There are over five million Native people in the United States. The vast majority of us actually don鈥檛 live on reservations. We鈥檙e in urban areas. We鈥檙e in suburban areas. I think it鈥檚 helpful for students to be exposed to people who are not like them to build tolerance and to also learn. But you shouldn鈥檛 have to have those experiences to treat people who are different from you with respect, in my opinion.
What do you think the responsibility of schools is to teach tolerance?
I think there鈥檚 a huge responsibility for educators to teach tolerance. I think the idea of K-12 education is that we鈥檙e preparing young people to be good citizens. I think that tolerance is completely necessary for that. Beyond what we鈥檙e teaching students about individual behavior and how they should act, I think it鈥檚 important that we teach them about systems. What happened in the interaction between the high school students and Nathan Phillips is systemic because that鈥檚 how Native people are treated all the time. The dehumanization that those boys learn comes from systems. We need to teach them about how they work, what their impact is, and what can be done to change them.
Like you said, these incidents are not necessarily rare. What would you say to those who, in your words, are privileged enough to not have experienced them?
Listen to Native people. Native people experience this type of racism daily, and we know what it is. In this moment of reflection, I think for that learning to occur, Native voices really need to be centered, and to be heard, and to be believed, too. When people say, 鈥淚 know what that look is because I鈥檝e been on the receiving end of it"鈥攊t鈥檚 not just Native people, but also people of color and a lot of women鈥攑eople need to listen to that experience, their lived experiences.
Bullying and racism play out in the classroom all the time. How can educators prevent this kind of situation from taking place?
We need to teach students how to intervene. That鈥檚 not [about] teaching people how to be a white savior. But we need to teach, especially white kids, when they see somebody who is white鈥攊t might be a peer, it might be somebody in their family鈥攕ay or do something that鈥檚 racist, how to challenge that behavior and how to have hard conversations. It can be a scary moment to call somebody out in that way, so I think teaching people real skills around having those difficult conversations is something that I think most of our schools leave out of curriculum. Part of being a good citizen of a diverse country, a diverse city, or a diverse community is being able to have those skills, instead of just ignoring it or walking away, to stand up against that wrong.
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
